Adding my two cents to the mega mesh mess surrounding transvaginal mesh complications…

Are you Sick and Tired of Lawyer Ads about MESH?

MeshAdsHave you or a loved one had Transvaginal Mesh?

You know all those crazy lawyer ads you see on TV,  asking,”Have you had Transvaginal Mesh?”?

Well, guess what?   They are not just constant, and annoying.  They are also talking to real, live, people who HAVE had transvaginal mesh, and ARE hurting because of it.

And there are a LOT of them out there.  Like, a LOT.  Thousands and thousands…. and more and MORE are winding up like them EVERY DAY.

There are currently over 100,000 lawsuits against six different manufacturers.

goodbadmeshThat is just the number of lawsuits.  There are a number of products for both POP, and SUI that the lawsuits are focusing on.  Most are still on the market today.  They are NOT possibly all “Lawyer-generated hype”.   There are thousands more reported complications, and who knows how many thousands go UN-reported.   Worse yet, there are more and more people limping into doctor offices every day complaining of problems after having surgery with mesh – because they are STILL putting it IN people, left and right!

Just as the FDA  reported that severe complications from mesh are “NOT RARE”, well, neither are these people suffering from the complications.  They are NOT rare, and NOT alone.  And, other than these annoying lawyers ads – they are NOT even being acknowledged much of the time, let alone finding a lot of support or help.

The vast majority of them are certainly NOT getting rich.  Most I’ve met, have not received any money, and can’t even afford to have the medical treatment they need.  So, anyone out there thinking all these people are sue-happy idiots crying wolf, and raking in the money – THINK AGAIN.

Mesh Complications are SEVERE and Life-Altering

Lawyer Ads are NOT enough. We need HELP!

People who do not know about mesh complications, and only see these lawyer ads, do not get it.  They just don’t have any idea just how serious, and life-altering mesh complications are.  Not only for the person suffering, but also for their spouses, their children, etc.  People are losing their jobs, insurance, homes, relationships.  It’s not okay.

Mesh is meant to be permanent.  So, when there are complications they are not only usually severe, but also not easily resolved.  While pretty much every OB/GYN, Urologist, and UroGyn knows how to put mesh IN, there’s only a handful of doctors that can take it OUT.   Even when people can get to one of the few experts, frequently the damage already done is permanent. As if that isn’t bad enough, the complications can keep progressing as the mesh erodes and works its way through your tissues, organs, etc.

The complications are summed up in the FDA report, as follows:

The most frequently reported complications from surgical mesh include:
“mesh becoming exposed or protruding out of the vaginal tissue (erosion), pain, infection, bleeding, pain during sexual intercourse, organ perforation from surgical tools used in the mesh placement procedure, and urinary problems.
Some reports cited the need for additional surgeries or hospitalization to treat complications or to remove the mesh.”

Mesh campaigners at Scottish Parliament

My story has to do with pain in groin/leg area, and mobility primarily.  Turns out, I wasn’t alone either.  Many have issues walking, and wind up using canes, crutches, wheel chairs and/or basically being bed/couch bound.  What I thought was going to be a minor, outpatient surgery wound up throwing my whole life upside down when at 46 years of age, I had a simple mesh sling implanted for SUI.    Suddenly, I could barely walk.  I felt dependent on my husband and children.  Being in pain, and not being able to walk is a problem, for sure.  However, I have talked to countless women who make my story sound like a walk in the park.

Many more have chronic pain, infections, and inflammation.  They have damaged bladders, colons, urethras, nerves, vaginal walls and so much more. These are major issues. Debilitating, life-changing problems, that often keep getting worse and worse and lead to surgery, after surgery (after surgery!). Not only are mobility, pain and dyspareunia problems, but we’re talking self catheterization and colostomy bags here people!

What’s worse is many women with complications go undiagnosed or misdiagnosed. Some are just told to live with it.  Many are told they are “the only one”.  Yeah. Right.  Think again.

Memorial Wall of Mesh Survivors (by Jaye Nevarez)

Memorial Wall of Mesh Survivors (by Jaye Nevarez)

The comments I see on this blog, either sent to me privately, or posted publicly are just heartbreaking.  Women saying things like,

“PLEASE SOMEONE LISTEN AND HEAR ME… I AM BEGGING FOR HELP. PLEASE….”,

or one who wrote;
“I am suffering for 17 years now. I have pain all the time. I had the surgery twice. I went back a third time and my doctor refused to see me.”
and then there was;
“I’ve been living in hell after having mesh surgery for Sui. After going to 3 doctors who all said there’s nothing they can do, I found your blog”

Mesh Complications are “NOT RARE”

FDA-2011Jul-warningI feel the need to repeat this. A lot. I frequently hear the argument that “every surgery has risks”, and many think the percentage of people who actually suffer from complications from mesh is only 1% or 2%. This is because many doctors are reporting out-dated studies that were done BY the mesh manufacturers, or they are not reporting complications at all. Many just deny or do not recognize complications are from the mesh, until there is no denying it.  There are also more recent studies that indicate complications are as high as 36%. Of course any study can be bias, and it’s difficult to know how accurate those stats are. Regardless, the FDA’s July 2011 warning specifically said that complications are “NOT rare”.   This was a direct change and correction from their previous warning where they indicated the opposite (that complications were rare). Obviously, the stats were great enough for them to change that statement and put out the July 2011 warning.

“Not rare” is rather vague, though, isn’t it? Still, it doesn’t sound very promising. Who wants to take a “not rare” risk?  especially when there ARE other options that are simply just not offered or mentioned much of the time?  The more I’ve researched the stats, the less promising they sound.   The fact that there are over 100,000 lawsuits is also pretty telling.   Mesh has the “added risk” of erosion, and all that goes with that.  The FDA even warns that there is NOT evidence that mesh repairs have any clinical benefit over non-mesh repairs.  Yet, many are not told this, and are not even offered any alternatives.

Most people with mesh complications are NOT getting better,  so, they are NOT going away.

helpmeNot only that, but doctors keep implanting mesh all the time, especially for SUI and hernia repairs so there are MORE and MORE people turning up with complications.   Chances are if you walked into your OB/GYN office TODAY and said that you pee a little when you sneeze, they will not think twice about implanting YOU with some mesh, or tape, or whatever they want to call it now.    Most of these products are made of the same material, polypropylene, and they ARE causing MAJOR, life-altering, changes for MANY.  Even the FDA says complications are NOT RARE, so we are not talking about just a few freak accidents here.  The mesh-injured need help!  REAL HELP.  And, I don’t just mean a lawyer.  They need DOCTORS that can actually help them, and they need SUPPORT.

These annoying lawyer ads you see all over the TV are NOT just for older, out-dated, no longer in use, mesh.  I wish they were, but no… they are for all kinds… and most are still on the market and being used.  Many doctors are spouting MYTHS generated by the manufacturers.   Please check all the facts before you get mesh.

Can you hear me now?  How about now?  Now?

Sometimes, it seems the only ones listening ARE the lawyers.  ?!   Like many people, I have never been a fan of lawsuits, or lawyers in general.  But, guess what?  Sometimes, you NEED a lawyer.  Sometimes, people/companies/manufacturers DESERVE to be sued.   Of course, like everything else, you have to be careful, because there ARE many law firms out there that do NOT care at all about helping you, and are only interested in lining their own pockets.  Greed runs rampant.  Many women are getting hooked into lawsuits and lending companies, taking advances for surgeries they need, and wind up OWING more money than they will ever get back.   So, I’m NOT saying the lawyer ads are all on the up and up.  They are not.  But, at least they ARE acknowledging this issue.

trust-me-im-a-doctor-300x300Most doctors are still promoting the use of mesh.  I keep hearing of doctors saying that repairs with mesh will last longer, but the FDA warns there is NO evidence that mesh provided any greater clinical benefit than non-mesh surgeries.  Many doctors promote the idea that any “older” and “bad” mesh is no longer being used.  Or that the FDA warnings were “only for mesh for POP“.  Or that the lawsuits only involve older mesh products used for POP.   This is simply NOT true.

Most Urology and Urogynecology organizations, like AUGs, as well as doctors, physical therapists, and other specialists  that meet those dealing with mesh complications – often act as though the mesh-injured are invisible.  They don’t seem to like to hear us mention anything about “Mesh”  when we limp into their office with pain and complications.

Ironically, more websites are popping up from doctors saying they specialize in mesh-removal non-mesh repairs, and pelvic reconstruction.  Some doctors are even joining our support groups.  They seem to want the mesh-injured individuals (complication support groups , pages, blogs, forums, etc.), to mention them in a good light, and refer our hurt friends to them.  That’s good thing, right?  Well, it’s good IF they can actually help people. There is no doubt that we need more doctors that can actually help, and to take an interest.  It does raise other questions, though.  Like, how many of these doctors ARE actually helping?   I mean, even if they WANT to help, are they capable of removing all the mesh?  And, if they don’t, is that really helping?  I have heard many women who go into surgery, thinking their doctor is experienced and will remove all their mesh, only to find the doctor only removed a small piece of the mesh.   Sometimes, they even implant more mesh in the process.   Women wind up having surgery after surgery, and more and more complications.  But, that is another topic…   


seenomeshMy point here (and I do have one) is that IF there are more doctors stepping up and saying they can help with mesh removal, and more of them actually doing partial removal after partial removal…  then, WHY is it that most of the medical community still does not want to admit we even exist?  
Not publicly anyway. Why?  What is it that makes so many doctors so resistant to discussing  mesh complications openly?

Is it peer pressure?  Because many of them, and/or their colleagues, are still advocating for the use of mesh?
Are they just in major denial?  Because if they were to acknowledge that mesh is causing so much harm, that would mean they would have to also admit they were part of ruining so many lives, and that is just too much to fathom?  Are they worried about losing money?   I’m referring to money from the surgeries, from research and clinical studies, or even from being paid consultants with the mesh manufacturers?  Are they afraid of all the lawsuits?  Granted, yes, there ARE a lot of lawsuits.  Over 100,000 lawsuits, actually, but those are against six different mesh manufacturers – not the doctors.  Are they being brainwashed by the Mesh Manufacturers?  The FDA?  AUGs??  Do they just not care?  Are they really still just completely in the dark about what is happening and the truth about mesh?   Do they think we, the patients, can not possibly know anything valid, and are not capable of understanding what they believe, and why they believe it?  

Whatever the reasons, it is clear that the majority of them do not want us to even mention the “M” word in their offices… or on their public Facebook pages… YouTube videos… websites… etc.    I know this, because I have had many of my comments deleted from such places.  God forbid you mention the FDA warnings and ask legitimate questions.  There are a few that will actually engage and respond, or allow me to post a link – and to them, I am VERY thankful!   There ARE  good docs out there. 

But, even many of the “good” doctor’s seem to want to bury their heads in the sand, and just avoid the whole “mesh mess”.    So, the mesh-injured individuals are commonly bounced around like ping-pong balls between specialists.  All too often mesh is never even identified, or acknowledged, as the problem.  If/when it is, many are still told we they are “the only ones” having such problems, and rather than send them to one of the few experts that actually CAN remove the mesh fully, they are instead sentenced to a life of repeated surgeries, and chronic pain management.

But, hey – maaaaaybe they will win a lawsuit, right?

Those with lawsuits,  should probably not be holding their breath for some big payout.  This has already been going on for years.  For most, their lawsuit may never pan out… and will likely never come close to covering their surgeries, and related losses, IF/WHEN it ever actually does pay.   Because lets face it – we are up against major companies like Johnson and Johnson, Boston Scientific, etc., – and they can and WILL appeal cases that are won, drag things out, and twist things around to their favor.  They are making billions on this in the mean time, and they can afford to do just that.  No, we need a lot more than just lawyer ads and lawsuits to help fix this mesh mess.

So, before you roll your eyes at that annoying Lawyer ad, or maybe start mocking, judging or pointing fingers at the ones they are directed towards – please think twice, and KNOW the FACTS about mesh.

————————————————————————
Parts of this post were pulled from other related posts on this blog.

==============Related Blog Posts================

==============Support Groups================

Perhaps even more helpful than articles, is talking to a variety of others who are suffering from mesh complications, and are in various stages of treatment.   Three of the larger support groups I found helpful are: 

===============COMMENTS from those hurt by mesh============
Here are more comments from women in the CLOSED support groups, which I am sharing with their permission.  These and other comments can be found on this post: https://meshmenot.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/help/, and other posts throughout this blog: :

“I had just turned 40 when I had my mesh implanted, and was a fitness nut, walking/biking/rollerblading every day. I was the healthiest I had ever been in my life at that point, other than the slight prolapse and SUI.  Feel so bad for my husband (and myself) that our sex life had to end when we were barely 40 years old – not to mention the loss of all those years of my income that we now face. It shouldn’t matter how old we are, everyone’s life should matter equally, but maybe people would listen more if they realized it happens to women in their 30s and 40s, too. I think there are even a few in their 20’s in our group – horrible!!”   – Janet, May 2015

I was only 37, now 39 and I’m ruined for the rest of my life.  I was also a health nut and workout freak. Incredibly fit before mesh. Trained 3 times a week with trainer. I was so active. Now I’m bedridden. …Most I walk is around my garden some days.” – anonymous, May 2015

“I just found out today that a friend who had prolapse after her miscarriage, had tvt mesh put in 2 weeks ago. This was after her talking with me and saying she will never get mesh in her body after seeing what I have been through. Well guess what? Her surgeon talked her into getting it, saying that I was not a “reliable example” and that my situation is “rare”. Well guess who was in the hospital today with extreme pain and infection? Yep my poor friend who is in her 20s. She said only 2 weeks after tvt mesh was put in and she said I wish I didn’t listen to that doctor.  She said she knew she shouldn’t of had it done, but her doc told her it was only alternative. I feel sick about it.”  – anonymous, May 2015

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Categorised in: Legal News, Mesh Complications, Sales & Marketing

17 Responses »

  1. Wow, I am a mesh victim and at first reading this I felt as though you thought I wasn’t. I hope you have sent this to the people who need to hear it. I’m not one, I live it. As far as the lawsuit goes I have recently been awarded some money but first the law firms take 40% then the insurance company takes what they paid out so by the time I got any it wasn’t much for my life being ruined and all my suffering. I had private insurance, I have never missed a payment and I have always paid my deductible so why should the insurance company get paid back for doing the job I paid them to do. Everyone wins except those of us who are suffering. Its simply hell and winning the law suite is a joke.

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  2. I attended FDA/CDRH training 9/2010 to be a Patient Representative. I learned the ‘informed consent’ for this surgery should state to the patient that there is an immediate change in the status of their civil rights to exclude justice (see Sandy King comment above) and the determined omission of post-market surveillance and any reporting of patient outcomes so the manufacturer and the medical device industry can avoid accountability for the product. I can buy a kitchen appliance and get a warranty and my money back if I return it for any reason. The pelvic surgical mesh is PERMANENT and irreversible and has zero warranty on the product. DEBCNY there is no way to inform all women of this impending harm. “The first duty of the Government is to afford protection to its citizens.” Congress set this disaster/scandal in motion. Our elected representatives can stop it.

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    • Hi Joleen. I can only shake my head in dismay as I read your post. It is just all so criminal. If I hadn’t already researched so much myself, it would be hard to believe… but, I do believe it. It would be nice if SOMEONE would attempt to even address this issue, let alone stop it. So tired of the old blame game and denial denial denial. And, I know I can never warn everyone myself… but, I try to do what I can. I know you are doing a lot to try to help… and, appreciate that very much. Any advice you would like to share here is welcome.

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  3. Amen sister! I walked around with mesh embedded in me for 6.5 yrs. I had no insurance. No Dr would touch me. I got on disability then had it removed. Then I still had pain for 1 yr afterwards. I was a registered nurse for 31 yrs, I could take care of whatever rolled in the door. With the mesh I lost everything I held dear, my husband, my farm, my animals, my gardens, my livlihood, for a short time my children, and even my sanity. I refer to that time period as “when I was dead” . I would never want any woman to go through what I did!

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    • Cheri, It never ceases to amaze me just how devastating mesh can be. I’m glad you were able to finally get it removed. 6.5 years is quite long enough… but, I know there are many who deal with it for much longer.. and even after removed, there’s often so many things that are ongoing. Your comment about calling that period – “When I was dead”, got me. I’m sure many can relate. Thanks for sharing, here and take care.

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  4. Hi Deb your story is just like my wife’s her name is Debra to
    She had mesh put in 2010 at age 46 she had nothing but problem after problem they sent her home after getting the mesh put in with a catheter in her as she couldn’t pee and she was in extream pain when I got her home.
    I ended up taking her to the emergency that was my wife being introduced to mesh hours after having it put in the mesh was pulling on her it was hurting her it was affecting everything about her way of life she is living in such an negative way due to mesh.
    My poor wife kept going back and back to the GYN begging him to take it out of course at first it was oh the pain is in your head this made me so mad he finally did a partial removal of the mesh this made things so much worse for her it caused so much grief in all sorts of ways the intimacy love making was next to none not that we where having it before the partial when the mesh was in,all I could do was hold her.
    We knew something was wrong very wrong we went back and back to Debs GYN and kept telling him something is wrong it’s to much pain in to many places he finally put a request in for Deb to go to UCLA to get Dr Raz to take the rest of the mesh out.But get this at first he said there was no Dr in the world he knew of who could fully remove the mesh I myself did some searching and found Dr Raz I had to tell the GYN all of a sudden he knew of Dr Raz unreal lies after lies my poor wife.
    So when Debra went back and seen this GYN after the second revision surgery done by Dr Raz as she is just having a horrible horrible time with so many issues he said its nothing he can do for her at all now as the damage has been done.
    But now he says he’s been doing full removal surgeries for four years the reason we went to UCLA and Debra seeing Dr Raz for her second revision surgery was that it was to complicated for him to do he didn’t want to risk in doing the second revision surgery what a liar.
    We know that there are only so many Drs that can perform this delicate surgery in the world let alone any in Canada I know of one or two but none in the Province we live in,because of a little surgery to stop an embarrassing problem for my wife now my wife lives a life of hell like so many others who has this problem all I can do is keep loving her and helping her in all of life’s skills a person needs to do to just live.
    The amount of narcotic medications my wife has to take to TRY to take AWAY her PAIN is just unreal morphine four times Daily Gabapentin four times daily oxycocet four times daily high blood pressure pills and cholesterol medication she now has type two diabetes never had this until the second revision surgery has to take Metformin and insulin.My wife has already had one operation on a wrist to stop the numbness in her hands and fingers that comes up from her lower thighs up her back down her arms to her hands and fingers next operation is coming up she constantly has pain in her hips lower back legs and vaginal area plus other issues my poor poor wife.
    It hurts it really does she use to be a active vibrant women Debra is to trying to at least go for short walks as one of her Drs is telling her she must try to as she has gained weight I love her I always will.
    Oh I would like to add the mesh was cutting into my wife’s urethra and if it wasn’t caught in time by the good Dr Raz it would have cut through it was a very close call so for those who think it’s safe do you still think mesh is safe please this is real women are hurting and are in a huge amount of pain and mental health and now possibly addictions from the meds.
    I left out so much as there is so much more it’s all negative I just wish for something positive to happen for Debra and family you must remember this is a husband of a person who has had and having a horrible horrible outcome because of having mesh put inside of her body telling his side of what I’ve seen its horrible and sad.
    Thanks Dean

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    • Dean,
      Wow. I’m so sorry for you and Debra… but, SO thankful that she has such a caring husband like you. I am also fortunate to have the support of my husband and family… but, I know of FAR too many who wind up without anyone to support them. Their relationships just can’t survive. It is a LOT to go through… and, takes it toll on even the most loving people. I remember thinking that I would not even blame my husband if he left me, and I wasn’t even dealing with a lot of what your wife has been through. So, I give you a ton of credit for sticking with her through all this. I give ANYONE a ton of credit. That goes for other family members and friends too. Most people have NO idea what it is like to deal with these kinds of things. Especially when doctors and the general public doesn’t even recognize mesh as a real problem. It’s not like getting diagnoses with some other well known illness or disease, that people will recognize and have sympathy and support for. Too many with mesh just get ignored, denied, and jerked around. It makes it that much harder to deal with. I hope at least some folks will read your comment, and at least get a taste of it. So, thank you so much for sharing all that. You really paint a vivid picture of what you and your wife have been through, as well as what SO MANY others have to deal with. And, it is ridiculous the way doctors are dealing with this as well. Most do not refer people to any of the experts… they just say it’s impossible to remove the mesh and don’t even try. Or, they TRY.. but do not really know what they are doing, and fail.. and make things worse. It is NOT okay. When did it become okay to not give us ALL our options, and the truth? When did it become okay to treat patients as human guinea pigs? Or to just deny them help all together? It is truly disgusting how this all plays out for so many of us. Sad. Infuriating. It would be hard to believe, if I hadn’t already heard it so many times, and lived it myself. I wish I had something to tell you to make things better. =( There are no easy answers… and sometimes, not much you can do… but, I do hope you, and your wife, have found some support and understanding along the way. You most certainly are NOT alone.
      Deb

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  5. Hi. I live in Katoomba. Not far from Sydney. I would love to hear from other ladies that have had mesh used in them like have. Please email me and we can have a chat. We all need to stick together. No body understands the damage that this stuff causes unless of course you have it in your body. 😊

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    • Hi Rosie,
      Thanks for commenting here. If you would like to meet others dealing with mesh complications, you might want to try the groups I mentioned at the end of the post.

      Three of the larger support groups I found helpful are:
      – Women’s POP/SUI TVMesh Complications Support (Closed Group)
      – Fighters And Survivors of All Transvaginal Mesh And Hernia Mesh/Plugs (Closed Group)
      – Mesh Problems (PUBLIC/OPEN TO ALL, including doctors, etc)

      The links to those, and many more resources are listed above, and on the footer/main page of this blog. Please hang in there.

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  6. I had my first surgery on Dec 18 2010 and have now going on my 13th Surgery . I need another one I just had a bladder simulator put in on May 29th of this year.I go thru hell every day .I was fun I got into this class action suit. Dum I should have went after the Dr. He didn’t no what he was doing either and Johnson and Johnson has so much money they no this mesh is no good but they can fight it . people need to stop buy their products.

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    • Cindy –
      I’m sorry. You are going through hell, and it is not right. It is a hard battle, for sure, and fighting big companies like J & J is not easy. =( You are right – they have BILLIONS, and a few lawsuits isn’t phasing them. They are making billions more, and we are the guinea pigs. Most of the lawsuits are against the manufacturers. In court, doctors also claim to be being duped by the manufacturers. Plus, they cover their asses pretty well – and most lawyers will not go after them. Personally, I believe the problem DOES lay with the product itself – and not so much the doctor that puts it in… but, I DO wish they would STOP putting it in! Even if you do think you had a terrible doctor, you may want to be careful about blaming your doctor in public if you have a lawsuit pending, as that is what the mesh manufacturers would like… https://meshmenot.wordpress.com/2015/03/27/is-it-your-doctors-fault-if-you-have-mesh-complications/

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  7. Some women, that the tv attorneys took their case , now years have gone by, 4 years waiting for justice,7 years suffering from mesh implants, for attorneys to go in favor of pharm, companies, and say, ,” your life is not worth anything” I WAS A STRONG WOMEN, before mesh, with mesh cutting through, , trimmed once still a larger piece protruding out , with specs of mesh, that seems to have shattered, into small pieces. that still when it moves 1 iota, brings pain, , infections never go away, fighting them with costs now over the counter, , trust docs. and nurses, attorneys , never again. . I NEVER WANT TO SEE ANOTHER LYING DOC. AND NURSE AS LONG AS I live, to be ridiculed laughed at, and cruelty, and found out most recent, 1 of the doctors that left my area, not long after mesh implant, was looking at ins, papers years ago, I HAD NEVER READ, AND SAW WHERE HE SENT OFF TESTS AND MORE TO THAT STATE, WHERE MESH IS MADE. DAMN THEIR EVIL GREEDY SOULS, for what they have done so sneaky in lies and cover up, colleagues in medical lieing for doctors,. IT IS NOT THE MESH, , YOU ARE CRAZY. BUT FOR ATTORNYS SO EVIL TAKING CASES KNOWING WOMEN CANNOT GET ANOTHER ATTORNEY, TO TELL A WOMAN AFTER YEARS SUFFERING, THAT HER LIFE IS NOT WORTH ANYTHING, FOR COMPENSATION/ TV ATTORNEYS THAT SENT CASES SO EVILLY TO THOSE STATES THAT EMPLOY, PHARM COMPANIES, IN THAT STATE. CORRUPT, KNOWING THEY WERE GOING TO STAB SOME WOMEN IN THE BACK.THAT IS DIRTY , AFTER SEEING NAMES OF POLITICIANS AND PRESIDENT THEY GAVE MONEY TO, SO ALL COULD GET RICHER.. NO TRUTH, NO JUSTICE FOR SOME. PLANNED THAT WAY, NOT EVEN A CHANCE. THEY KNEW.

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  8. why are my posts not allowed?

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  9. ok, thanks deb, I share a lot of your stories on my face book, too, with my opinIons on based on what I HAVE GONE THROUGH, .

    Like

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  1. Scaremongering or Just Plain Scary? – Mesh Me Not

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